Sorry about taking so long to post; been busy with the kiddos football games. We had a great time and enjoyed the conversation very much. I would also like to thank RodSmith for the dinner, you didn't have to do that. I must say that Jeff is a wealth of knowledge and I took every opportunity I had to pick his brain. He has me talked into trying the jugging thing; as a matter of fact I am going to Lowes now to pick up the materials to make a few. The only problem I am going to have is cutting the rebar. I'll figure it out some way to get it done. Thanks again RodSmith and Jeff for a really nice dinner.